Jesus Great Teacher or God?

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Jesus Great Teacher or God?

This is a pivotal question. It was pivotal at the Nicean Council of 325 where it was decided by the forces that supported Constantines vision that Jesus was God incarnate not a man who had developed through his own efforts to become what he was.

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Seeking some good discussion and growth in awareness I put this discussion forward. I hope that we can discuss it with respect for each other. I have been following this question since early in my life and Leo Tolstoy helped me with it when I was 15 with his book The Kingdom of God is Within You. I am just now 39 years later reading that book again and he makes some wonderful arguments.

If Jesus was God the very essense of the One father God incarnate as a man we can never hope to reach his level of development. If he was a highly developed human being showing us the way to live then our relationship withthe story of his life is very different. Most of what we commonly know about Jesus comes to us through the Bible and is a result of Constantines effort to empower the church with the power of the Roman Empire. There are many different views upon what happened around that council and how the Bible as a select group of scriptures came together as a book. I suppose that we can each believe whatever we want about it and find justifying stories to support our views. One big question I have is how many Gnostic Bishops were there at the time of the council and why were they so poorly represented there?

It is my understanding that Arius was the leading voice proposing that Jesus was a human, a highly developed teacher. Of the 300 or so Bishops attending only 18 would sign with him. When he presented his viewpoint it was torn to shreads and a Bishop known as Saint Christopher stood and knocked Arius to the floor. Arius was banished from the council. So it has been controversial for a long time. What do you think, what does your heart tell you?

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Comment by SANDRA MELO ANGEL on May 27, 2011 at 8:55pm
He divided the history of mankind.
Now the psychology examines its striking
intelligence ...
1.The process of constructing thoughts
2.The process of organization of consciousness and existential
structure I
3.The roles of conscious and unconscious memory and
formation history of intrapsychic
4.The process of transforming emotion
5.The process of interpretation and formation of thinkers ..
Comment by SANDRA MELO ANGEL on May 27, 2011 at 8:45pm
He divided the history of mankind.
Now he began to study psychology and
analyze its striking intelligence.
Comment by SANDRA MELO ANGEL on May 3, 2011 at 7:36pm

Name: Jesus of Nazareth
Time of death 15:00
Marital status Single
Males
Venue "Place of the Skull," Calvary, Golgotha
Jerusalem Municipality
State Judea
Occupation Carpenter
Hometown Bethlehem
Higher Level of education
Name of Father Joseph of the House of David
Name of Mother Mary of Nazareth (also the home of David)
Father's profession Carpenter
The Profession of mother home
Number of children None
Received assistance during the death not
Confirmed diagnosis for the Holy Shroud
Cause of death cardiopulmonary failure typical of crucifixion
Underlying cause Torture, pericardial effusion, low oxygen, tetany, and hypovolemic shock
Other pathological conditions that contributed to the death scourging, crucifixion, bleeding, pain and stress
Unnatural Death

Information Source Sacred Scripture
Declarants Luke, Matthew, Mark and John
Witnesses to the death of Nazareth Mary (Mother), John the Evangelist, Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, Mary Magdalene and Mary of Cleophas
Cemetery to be buried tomb of Joseph of Arimathea
Jerusalem Municipality Judea
Doctor who signs the certificate of Ata Longinos Pilate (was not a doctor)

How not to love whoever loves?
Comment by SANDRA MELO ANGEL on May 3, 2011 at 7:32pm
It is very strange talking about a death certificate of our Lord Jesus. But for three days, so it was. Jesus needed to fulfill the term, its mission entrusted to him by the Father .. Jesus came down to the Abode of the dead, so also there to proclaim salvation through him that there had hoped. "The descent into hell is the fulfillment, to its fullest, the Gospel message of salvation is the last phase of the messianic mission of Jesus Christ (...). down so the bosom of the earth, so that 'the dead listen to voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live "(Jn 5:25). Jesus, the Prince of life destroyed by death, the ruler of death, that is, the devil (...). As of now, Risen Christ 'holds the key of death and Hades "(Heb 2: 14-15) and' The Name of Jesus every knee bend in heaven on earth and in hell '(fl 2, 10)" (cf. Catechism Catholic Church § 632-635)
Amen! Eternal glory to the risen Jesus, Live from the dead!

 
Comment by Valentin Reyes O. on January 5, 2010 at 2:02am
My testimony . On the year 2003 3 years after mi iniciation on what we call "life in christ" I decided to abandon all relation with the Lord & his book, all this because since the begining of learning from Christ,, all kinds of misterious phenomena & bad happenings started to overwhelm my life to the point of desperation & even extreme "bad luck ",,I was awake & counscious, I told the Lord, I have to leave you Lord, your book is power you are wonderful Lord I really love you but since we met,, my life is upside down Idont know why,,,good bye Lord ..I silent for a monent closed my eyes & while resting on the couch alone & in despair filled with all kinds of personal sorrows that hounted me. I hear the Voice of Christ my Master,, he just sounded so wonderful ,, in a very orderly & paeceful manner he said to me DON'T FEAR, KEEP COMING CLOSER TO ME & I WILL GIVE YOU THE ARROW THAT FLIES IN THE DAY. And since that day, visions, voices, dreams & many other very good things are keeping me in an attitud of thanks giving to him Christ my savior & Master. V Reyes
Comment by Tracey on October 27, 2009 at 8:31pm
Hello. What a great group! Can't wait to read the discussions. I believe that Jesus was a teacher and prophet who was fully self-realized. There are too many verses in the Bible where Jesus prays to God, the Father and speaks of the Father being greater than he and even instructing the disciples not to pray to him (Jesus), but said "when you see the one not born of woman, then prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your Father."

In my humble opinion, Jesus true teachings were that of Oneness, of our divine connection to "God". He taught that if we would know ourselves, we could heal and move mountains, just like him.

I think his teachings are gravely misunderstood and incorrectly taught by modern fundamental preachers. No disrespect intended.

We are all children of God!

Namaste!
Comment by ken sandin on August 10, 2009 at 8:21am
Here is a thought to think about. If Jesus was just a great teacher, and nothing more, than would the statement, "I and my Father are One" have any meaning or power. What about when Jesus made it clear that by becoming One with him, you become One with the father?

I do think it is valuable to consider the bible with historical fact. But I also think, since Jesus is speaking of mystic reality, that by comparing it with other mystic texts, we can come even closer to the Truth.

Ramana Maharashi said this "God, Guru and Self are One."

Jesus said,

"that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us... And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one... that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them" (John 17:21-26).

I do believe that Jesus Christ was the perfect image of God. I also think that he is the True Self, the Truth lying at the core of our heart. For "The kingdom of God is within you."

This is what makes his message so powerful. He is clearly making it clear that we too can say "I and my father are One." We can say this because God is within us.

But we must be perfect, even as God is perfect.

How do we do this? Jesus said, "I am the Way." Well what makes him the way? Jesus himself says the Way is thus,

"And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it" (Matt 10:38-39)

The Way is dying and rising. Jesus was the living embodiment of that dying and rising.

If perfection is within ourselves, then we must renounce everything that is blocking it out. The kingdom of God is Here, but we do not see it. We must cleanse that from our awareness that is blocking us from the Infinite, Unbearable Compassion within us.

Then we too can become living embodiments of God.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross ( Phil 2:5-8).

Or to rephrase from Plotinus: "man can become God. But man cannot become God and man at the same time."

To rise as the God that is One with all, we must die to the self that is separated.

In short, Jesus was not a teacher, he is the lesson itself. His life itself is a perfect example of how to live in the Spirit. Yes, Jesus was born a man, but he died with faith and was resurrected into the One True Living God.

This is what Jesus is to me. He is my All in All. He is my Guru, God and self. he is the Path that I follow. He is the devotion of my Bhakti path.
Comment by Steve Chandler on June 25, 2009 at 6:44pm
One of the things I've tried to do was corroborate the Biblical story with actual history. When it comes to Jesus this is very difficult because none of the major aspects Biblical story is mentioned in any history outside the Bible. There are some lesser aspects of the Biblical story that are mentioned outside the Bible. For example, there was a Governor of Syria named Quirinius. He became governor of Syria in 6 AD, about the time the Romans occupied Judea. The Roman occupation of Judea would necessitate a census and taxation of the newly occupied population so this does make sense with the Gospel of Luke account of Jesus birth. Where we run into trouble is with the Gospel accounts of the 3 Wise Men. On their return they pay their respects to Herod and tell him what they've seen (of the birth of Jesus). Herod then perpetrates the massacre of the innocents (execution of all boys under 2 years old). The problem is this, history records that Herod died in 4 BC, ten years before Quirinius became governor of Syria. These two events obviously cannot have happened to the same child and cast doubt on the Biblical story as we know it.

Once I came to have doubts about the Biblical story I felt emancipated from a set of expectations placed upon me by religious institutions. I could look at life from my own heart and see it in all its beauty. I could look at others with understanding and compassion. I felt a part of life, not apart from it. I could seek wisdom from all faith traditions, but was not bound to accept all everything without question from any one faith tradition. I can do good from my own heart as opposed to fulfilling an obligation to any deity. I can accept and love myself as a work in progress and not fear eternal retribution for mistakes past, present and future. Perhaps most importantly I don't need anything outside myself to find peace and happiness. Yet I find it easier to see beauty in everyone I meet, because I don't need to concern myself with what I in the past perceived as flaws. I've come to see life as a holy adventure to be enjoyed moment by moment.
Comment by Greg Barrett on June 20, 2009 at 2:48pm
Wonderful responses in this discussion. I'm only now reading them.

In my book talks I often ask rhetorical questions to try and make a point: Do I believe Jesus was the result of a virgin birth? I don't not believe it, but to me the answer is not critically important (or even possible to definitively answer). Do I think Jesus was the Messiah? Same answer. I don't not believe it, but the answer does not consume me. I'd rather study his life and his lessons, then try and apply them. Spiritual awareness rises in the experiential, and Jesus, Siddhartha and others all said that you must apply the lessons they are teaching in order to know the Truth.

I think that in asserting our own answers to questions about the divinity of Jesus we risk losing focus and becoming blind to the lessons of the man or Messiah referred to as Jesus Christ. What did he or He teach? To love your neighbor as yourself. To do unto others as you would have them do unto you. To treat one another with charity and kindness and respect. To help the poorest and the most downtrodden.

Jesus didn't say cheer for me, debate me, hang a symbol of me on your golden necklaces (disclaimer: I wear a cross around my neck), build mighty churches with stained glass windows in my name. He said to "follow me." The only way to the Father is through the Son? To me, that means that we should follow the great teachings of this man or Messiah and by living that way (selfless instead of selfish) we will unlock the Divine that dwells inside.

Thanks for a wonderful discussion.
Comment by RaK on April 18, 2009 at 4:55am



Jesus/Joshua: "The Teacher of Righteousness" an Essene Healer crucified in 88 BCE


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